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Library Tech Issues
Tue, 08/26/2008 - 12:22 — Joshua M. Neff
Help me out here, folks. Firefox is in danger of being locked out of my library (except for my teammates and me, since we're web designers and need to be able to use multiple browsers).
Apparently, the issue is this: staff are running Firefox from flash drives (since Firefox isn't installed on all staff computers). County IT (since we're a county library and on the same network as the county, and our IT department has to ultimately answer to county IT) will detect a virus on a computer and freak out, sending a message to our IT. But then the virus will disappear from the computer, leading IT to figure the virus is actually on someone's flash drive, because of an executable program. Our IT basically never intended for staff to run executable programs off of flash drives, and they really don't want us doing it. But they also don't want to have to support two or more browsers on all staff PCs, so they don't want to install Firefox library-wide. On top of that, a lot of county things won't work in Firefox (like Oracle, which the county uses for timecards and stuff).
Do other libraries have these issues? Are other libraries' staff not allowed to run executable programs off of flash drives? Not allowed to have Firefox installed on PCs? How can I convince our IT that this is going in a bad direction?
What a pain
Our IT department supports many browsers for faculty and staff, and Firefox, IE, and Safari are on all the lab computers (well, IE isn't on the Macs, and Safari isn't on the PCs, but you get the idea). Unfortunately, I don't know how this decision was made or what this entails for the IT staff, but there has never been even a hint of discontinuing this practice. The lab image seems to hold nice and stable throughout the year, and it allows IT to have some control over when and how thoroughly to upgrade the lab machines' browsers. In a perfect world lab users would be able to use their favorite browser extensions (which they can if they run FF from their flash drives, but very few students do that), but we understand that this would cause many headaches for IT.
Of course, my perspective is firmly from the small liberal arts edge of the universe.
Good luck!
dealt with this, too
Joshua, I work in a large global corporation where the standard -- rigidly enforced -- is IE. Well, Microsoft everything, just about. Firefox up until recently was definitely verboten. I am really fortunate because I have local admin privileges on my laptop so I can install Firefox or anything else I want. But my registry is routinely audited. At times I've resorted to running off of a USB drive also. (Actually my preferred browser is Flock, which is a customized version of Firefox -- same code base.)
I had the same problem in previous academic work environments.
Anyways, what I am trying to say here is that with patience, sometimes things work out better than you might hope for. Recently I was astounded to note that new laptops coming from our corporate IT actually have Firefox preinstalled. That's a real sea change from just a year ago.
I have never had a problem defending my use of Firefox because I can run any IE-specific app using the cool, free IE Tab add-on.
Steve
Re: Library Tech Issues
Josh, I feel your pain. One of the first things I did as a new IT Manager was start installing FF on any computer I got my hands on while fixing/upgrading something else/walking by and noticing it was unlocked/etc. I'm in the process of doing that for our PCC lab, too. For the 3 that I've already installed as a test run, however, they can still install all of their favorite extensions without any admin privledges at all. Of course, we use Centurian, so they are gone the next day, but the ability is there if they need it. Same with the staff, they can't install the software themselves (though that may change soon), but they can install all the extensions they want.
Now that I've loaded you up with all that un-related stuff, I will tell you that it is more difficult to manage FF updates than it is to manage IE updates. FF updates FAR more often and while there are hooks to patch management software to allow patches to also update FF to the latest version, they aren't automatic and will require some fiddling from your IT staff.
As for executable flash drives - I don't stop anyone (staff at least, patrons can't run exes from anywhere - but that's more of a CYA software piracy thing from a long time ago than anything) from running whatever they want from their flash drives. I trust my virus software and *if* a particular person was having a problem (and the IT staff should be able to tell what computer had the virus when it was loaded), I'd deal with that person (as in "helping them get clean", not as in "beating them with a wet noodle"). Pulling the plug on everyone because one person got infected seems a little draconian.
Those are my .2 cents, as an Info Tech manager for a library with public access computers. Dunno if that will carry any weight with your county IT folks...
Robin "Can't remember her LSW login creds" Hastings
Information Technology Manager
Missouri River Regional Library
hastingsr@mrrl.org
she does beat us!
I have proof!
I actually have no advice other, but thought I'd offer my 2 cents. One of the things that was incredibly frustrating to me upon coming to the public library was that I was not an admin on my machine. At every job I'd had in the private sector including one with a government contractor that required me to have security clearance I was the admin.
I will admit I did a little happy dance when Robin allowed me to make changes to my own PC. Although it might have been that she got tired of all my requests for installs :)
We have this same problem at
We have this same problem at my library system, where we have to answer to a County IT department. Since I develop in FF and need access to the others I was able to stealth install on my work PC. Luckily for us we have a pretty good working relationship with our IT people so FF is now on our staff machines, though my call to put it on the public computers is a fight that continues.
I think it mostly comes down to getting them to understand that FF (and Opera, Safari, etc) are required for you to do your job properly.
Can't they just set an exception?
Can't they just tell the AV software to ignore Firefox.exe and therefore stop insisting it's a virus. And just why is the AV software assuming than an .exe off an external device is a virus anyway?
-Michael Sauers
Michael, I'm not sure if
Michael, I'm not sure if county IT is detecting the executable files as a virus or they think a virus on a flash drive is being detected, because an executable file is being run from the flash drive. Of course, I (and others) have said that Firefox is more secure than IE, but that doesn't seem to be taken into account.
That bites! I am so lucky to
That bites! I am so lucky to have so much control over my computers.
I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but perhaps showing them some setups that other public libraries use for Firefox would help?
The Swiss Army Librarian has two posts about their set up, and Andrea Mercado has a long post about hacking Firefox for public computers.
The result:
I just got out of our meeting with IT. The end result is: it doesn't matter what we say, it doesn't matter what arguments we present, IT will not install or support Firefox, except for Web development (which means I'm an exception, but many of my friends aren't). We're on the county system. The county uses Oracle and other software that only works with IE. So, the county will never switch over to or approve the use of Firefox, and our IT won't take the time to install and support it. End of story.
That royally bites.
Josh, man, that sucks. I'm sorry you're in such a restrictive environment. Makes me thankful for my own IT department. (basically, "You want it? Go right ahead.")
Keep an eye on the membership of the county IT department; IMHO it sounds like one nasty bugger with a big stomp. Revisit when nasty bugger moves on...
To be Continued...
I know it's disheartening to work in a place that doesn't see things the way you do. When I was a public librarian, we had more autonomy but things were still difficult since we had a drone for our IT support. So Firefox wasn't on his agenda and I pushed that point every time I saw him, thus stressing me out even further!
We don't have Firefox on our computers here either. :( I periodically flood the IT help tickets with FF requests as I try to weaken their stance. Sigh
I always hate the end of a story. How about instead you say "To be continued..."? And we'll keep trying, maybe next week, next year or tomorrow...
Oracle only works with IE?
That's a load of baloney. The database they use has nothing to do with your browser. I want to know this other software that only works with IE. Your IT department is dishing you a load of malarkey.
bad customer service
I see this as a customer service issue (I see almost everything as a customer service issue). Until your County IT realizes that their primary goal is to give you good service they will not worry about allowing FireFox. Right now they just want to make life easier for themselves. I'm sure that they have many wonderful qualities and do a great job maintaining technology for the county but that "you want it, you got it" attitude is going to be necessary. Good luck changing their entire outlook on service.